Gimmicky is a great under statement. Thousands of dollars went down the drain for anyone that purchased these covers. No dealers will buy them. As a gift you are ok, but do not spend a penny on buying any, RichaardLogin to Likethis postmembers.ebay.com/aboutme/rgnpcs/
Thanks Richaard. I think you are basically echoing what I have said in my post. Further, to clear any doubt, I wouldn't want to give them house room, let alone pay anything for them. Perhaps I should have phrased my post as follows: "What would be the best thing to do with these "collectibles"? (eg. soak them for the stamps, save them for a cold winter night as kindling, donate them to a charity and take a write off, tear off the gold and sell them as scrap :-)) BobLogin to Likethis post
A tax writeoff seems the best way to go. You could even try eBay and see if there is someone foolish enough to buy them. The binders should be worth something. RichaardLogin to Likethis postmembers.ebay.com/aboutme/rgnpcs/
The binders are good,,if they are the newer versions with three pockets to a page. The older version had two pocket pages,heavier vynl,stiff, and discolored after a year or so. Yes,dealers pass them up.Value wise,or resale wise,they are at the bottom of the list. Mass produced,most likely in the 100,000s,,,they are by no means scarce,were over priced ,but advertised the free albums,,,forever.Which were actualy included in the priceing for the covers and why the covers were higher priced than other comparable FDCs of the time. I thought the "gimmick" was a rather pleaseing looking cachet.I have several,and the binders. They do take up a rather unpleasant,odd space on my library shelves. With a section of shelves adjusted to the "taller" than usual album size.Nothing else as tall except my 1912 two volume issue books on "ALL ABOUT COFFEE" and "ALL ABOUT TEA". The biggest problem with this supplier,besides pushing valueless (to dealers) FDCs, was thet they promised to make the covers for every stamp issued, but only serviced commemoratives,, and skiped a few issues that they deemed not in this catagory.I recall the non serviced Trans-Mississipi Reissued set.And with that,they lost a lot of their base customers. I'm a goofy collector.Like the odd and unusual,so have saved the "Postal Commemorative Society 22k gold replica FDCs" as a gentle reminder of how the unwarry collector can be duped into buying stamps or covers because of the fancy ( false) advertisements. This said,I'll gladly take those 22k gold replicas and the binders off your hands,and out of your library,your home,your city and state. For a smallish price,,plus postage. Email me with details. TOM [email protected] to Likethis post
I had someone give me an album of these. I researched the successful bids on ebay and found that WITH shipping included, a buyer would pay 75 cents to a dollar for each cover. I donated mine to my local stamp club's auction and they sold for about 20 cents each, as one unit. The club made some money to put toward our next stampshow, so I considered it a successful venture.Login to Likethis post
Thanks to all. I was really taken by the suggestion made by Medfordor, and as a result contacted a local fellow who runs a youth stamp club. He will be getting in touch with a friend who is an auctioneer to see if he will include them in his next auction. Even if they only generate a fraction of what they might be worth, the money generated will help out with some supplies for the club. A good solution! BobLogin to Likethis post
A member emailed me about these gold replica FDCs, and I deleted the message by accident,in too big a hurry dumping the 30 some junk emails that came in. Would this member please re-email me again. TOM [email protected] to Likethis post
Doing some contemplateing on this subject of Gold leaf ReplicaFDCs. It seems a lot of people( collectors) only mention about the "bad investment" part of these covers. I do not agree that they were "over priced", "never be worth their costs", as a reason to NOT buy into them. I've gone over my buy statements and found that ALL FDC servicers over charge in the same range,some even higher,for their covers,that will "never be worth their costs". With little exception ,all those 5,10,20 dollar FDCs by the thousands of servicers are listing at 1.00 and 2.00 dollars. (I said listed,and not what you would get if you tried to sell them). So if those Gold replicas are "worthless, then so to are all the others.(modern cacheted FDC servicers). IMHO TOMLogin to Likethis post
I have a few of these Gold Leaf Replica FDC's in my collection. I only collect certain issues and I try to get as many different cachets as I can find for these issues. I don't think that you can make a blanket statement that all FDC's are worthless. You can't lump these FDC's in with cachet makers like Fred Collins, David Peterman, Lois Hamilton, etc. Collins was voted the favorite cachet maker of the last half of the 20th century. Peterman and Hamilton hand draw and color each cachet in very limited quantities. Here is a Collins Cachet: Here is a Peterman Cachet: Here are closeups of 4 hand made Hamilton Cachet. You will notice that each design is similar but unique. The 1st Hamilton is 19 of 175, 2nd is 41 of 175, 3rd is 57 of 175 and the 4th is 147 of 175. Collins cachets will usually cost you between $5.00-$20.00 early ones will cost over $100. Peterman Cachets usually go between $15.00-$50.00 and Hamilton Covers $10.00-$30.00. The Gold Leaf Replica FDC's along with ArtCraft, Artmaster are all mass produced and you can find them usually for under $1.00. They are not in the same league as these other cachet makers. Bob (Message edited by parkinlot on May 13, 2009) (Message edited by parkinlot on May 13, 2009)Login to Likethis post"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"www.parkinlot-stamps.com
Bob, I agree there are a few "better" cachet makers, but they are an exception to the rule. The majority are all traveling in the same boat. There are a few thousand newbies trying their hand at makeing cacheted FDCs, a few thousand un registered cover makers, about 600 registered makers, and out of all of them only a small ,,,very small,,, select few are good at it and get better recognition and obviously better prices and are collected avidly by a select few FDC collectors,which makes for price increases to match the demand by those few collectors. Hand painted,are just that,hand painted,but over a printed image.To me a hand painted would be each individual cachet is created "by hand" intirely. No two images would match exactly. Your images above of Hamilton with bird in various backgrounds shows a simulated hand painted.Notice the bird images are exactly alike in detail,and just "hand painted" in various colors. I would need to magnify the cachet to see brush strokes,paint overruns,angle and direction of strokes,or absence there of,and only showing a great many "dots",that would indicate a digital copy with or without additional painting applied. The best artist in the world cannot "exactly" duplicate a hand drawn or hand painted picture.There is always a difference,even if ever so slight. At 175 covers produced, and no variations to all or part of the cacheted image would indicate it's just another "common" FDC and not noteable enough to garner those inflated prices that so many Servicers charge,and the few,like you mentioned,seem to think their artistic talents are worth. Values for these FDCs ,like all philatelic products,is not judged by supply and demand,but by the prices paid for them in the after market.A few zealious collectors bidding,and outbidding each other to get a FDC they need to complete a set,or just add bulk to their holdings,will eventually give a false reading in the market,that those particular FDCs are worth more,or at least deserve a higher value listing in those FDC catalogs that you use as a guide to value your holdings. I say holdings,instead of collection. (holdings=investments///collection=hobby) I hope the average collector does not buy FDCs as an investment.They will surely be disapointed when,or if,they try to sell them in the anticipation of a huge profit. It is better to "collect" covers,as something you like,an addition that inhances the beauty of your collection,or just because you like the looks of it. TOM (Message edited by HARLEY on May 14, 2009)Login to Likethis post
Tom, You know I love you but I totally disagree with your position on this. I'm going to try to make comments to each of your points: 01) "I agree there are a few "better" cachet makers, but they are an exception to the rule." I disagree... There are really only a few mass marketers of FDC's. The majority of cachet makers are the middle and little guys. For each issue that I collect there may be about 10 mass market issues, the rest are the middle to little guys. ArtCraft/Artmaster/Fleetwood may issue more covers per issue than all the smaller cachet makers combined. 2)" a few thousand un registered cover makers, about 600 registered makers, and out of all of them only a small ,,,very small,,, select few are good at it and get better recognition and obviously better prices and are collected avidly by a select few FDC collectors,which makes for price increases to match the demand by those few collectors. " I don't know where you are getting your statistics for this or what constitutes a "few" collectors. The AFDCS has thousands of members. The number of good cachet makers matter of personal opinion. Because I try to get as many different cachetmakers for the issues I collect, I have the good, bad and the ugly in my collection (mostly good). 3) The best artist in the world cannot "exactly" duplicate a hand drawn or hand painted picture.There is always a difference,even if ever so slight. At 175 covers produced, and no variations to all or part of the cacheted image would indicate it's just another "common" FDC and not noteable enough to garner those inflated prices that so many Servicers charge,and the few,like you mentioned,seem to think their artistic talents are worth. Even if the the bird on the Hamilton cover was pre-printed on the envelope, the woman had to draw the bird and then you are discounting the labor it would take to color 175 covers. This is a 4 stamp issue so she colored and added backgrounds to 700+ covers for this one issue(she also did a few for the block of 4). I don't know how you can consider them "common". Each cover is unique. It's like having a cover with the same exact stamp but a different date or address on the cover but with much more labor involved. Perhaps because I have absolutely no artistic talent, I appreciate even the most mundane cachet. Cachet maker Kendil Bevil just recently completed his cachets for his subscribers for the Celebrate the Century series (150 different stamps), almost 10 years after their issue - that's how time consuming creating these FDC's are. I know some people get really hung up on FDC's not being cancelled on the correct date and the cachet's being added afterward, it doesn't bother me at all. I appreciate their efforts. Some cachets are printed from wood blocks, some are made of metal, some are made of leather, some are made on computer. Some makers incorporate the stamp into the image. 4) "Values for these FDCs ,like all philatelic products,is not judged by supply and demand,but by the prices paid for them in the after market.A few zealious collectors bidding,and outbidding each other to get a FDC they need to complete a set,or just add bulk to their holdings,will eventually give a false reading in the market,that those particular FDCs are worth more,or at least deserve a higher value listing in those FDC catalogs that you use as a guide to value your holdings." Of course supply and demand is a part of FDC collecting as in any other collecting. I don't consider my collection a "holding". It has been put together very meticulously. I have spent quite a lot of money bidding against other enthusiastic fdc collectors and lost some lots that I wish I had bid more because I haven't seen those cachets for sale since then. There are several different ways to collect FDC's. I collect by issue (stamps issued on my birthdate, looking forward to this years duck stamp on June 26th). I try to get as many different cachet makers as possible. Some people collect by cachet maker. Some collect by topic. Some collect with autographs. I'm sure there are other ways I'm missing. 5) "I hope the average collector does not buy FDCs as an investment.They will surely be disapointed when,or if,they try to sell them in the anticipation of a huge profit. It is better to "collect" covers,as something you like,an addition that inhances the beauty of your collection,or just because you like the looks of it." This statement could be made for any collectible including other areas of philately. I don't want to discourage any collector from pursuing any aspect of philately. I'm just pointing out that there is a whole world of First Day Cover collecting beyond the ArtCraft, ArtMaster and Gold Foil cachets. These cachets are marketed to people outside of the stamp collecting community. Like CTO's they may actually bring some people into the mainstream. I agree that FDC's are philatelic in nature (except for the very early ones) but they are very much a part of the philatelic community. I will always defend FDC collecting whenever it needs defending. It's not for everyone, but for those who want to persue it, like any other aspect of philately, learn what's out there and have fun. If anyone would like to see other cachet makers please visit my website and click on the First Day Covers Link. http://home.comcast.net/~parkinlot/ All these covers are in my collection. I haven't updated it in a while. This conversation may have motivated me to add more images sometime soon. BobLogin to Likethis post"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"www.parkinlot-stamps.com
Bob, we are of different opinions, and most likely because you are a FDC collector,and I am not. I do have quite a few, but because they are coils and I could not find an on cover example,especialy those odd ball denominations-5.3,7.6,8.4,13.2,,ect. of the transportation series. So a FDC will suffice until I find a replacement. The only FDCs that interested me ( as a first day cover) were the ones with cachets that extend enough to the right,that it recieves part of the cancelation. This type cannot be reproduced (add-ons) at a later date. A more proof positive that it is one of the first , original presentations of the cachet maker. Maxie cards are another,with the stamp and cacheton a post card or reproduction of one,the stamp and cancel is on the pic.Add ons cannot be done. Well if nothing else comes of this thread,,at least it got you to revamp (update) you web site.That's gotta be a positive. Tought for a while there,someone was going to jump in with a " Now now boys,fight nice" have a happy day, love ya TOMLogin to Likethis post
actually, the boys are fighting nicely. I think the different perspectives are important, and I'm especially interested in hearing from an FDC collector about FDCs, about which, beyond the common Artmaster and Fleetwood cachets and the early pre-cacheted postally used material, I know virtually nothing. It is important to distinguish the rarer and better cachets from the more common mass-market cachets, which is what Bob is doing. These are the cachets that we seldom see (although quite a few grace our auction pages and get bidders at not insignficant prices, confirming their value in a marketplace). DavidLogin to Likethis post"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
Covers are a small, but special thing of life. Just about every cover at one point was/is or still is important to someone for some reason. There are very few pieces of mail that come my way, that I don't know someone who woud like it for their collection. -Very few. My trading stock is filled with topics of no interest to me. It's virtually impossible to oraganize in way that makes it easy to find what every potential trading partner wants. States, towns, dates, cancel types, aux markings, labels, stamp designs, corner cards, surnames, rates, ink color, FDU, FDC, cachet artists etc... Every detail matters to somebody sonewhere. Many could want the same cover for very different reasons. Gold stamps fit into this as well. How else would I ever have an Inverted Jenny? All covers rock somebody's world. Peace, DoeLogin to Likethis post
You have to love this place! Start a thread and everybody gets an education. It's not that anything said here would convince me to collect covers, but it sure is fabulous just to learn more about another area of the hobby. Thanks y'all, BobLogin to Likethis post
Doe drings up an interesting point. The PSC not only made FDCs,of current new issues,but also offered other series of the Gold Leaf Replicas. Golden Replicas of United States Stamps (which are the 1st day covers) Great Americans on United States Stamps (which have the cachet of gold replica plus the real stamp,(MNH-encapsilated)and to right is an artists rendition of the person and simulated cancel with name, date,and location of birth. And finaly Golden Reolicas of U.S. Classic Stamps( which is where Doe got the Inverted Jenny,, they have the golden replica cachet,and to right is a picture of the stamp,beneath the pic says, enlarged reproduction of the Original stamp. The last two are NOT FDCs. btw Doe, I too have that Inverted Jenny cover.Login to Likethis post
\image}over-run_nations_2} On this discussion of FDC cachets, All the early covers up to the 1960's can be found in the Micheal Mallone catalog. Here is the Over-run Nations Set, with the 1st Smartcraft-Stahle cachets, very striking.Login to Likethis postmembers.ebay.com/aboutme/rgnpcs/
Fake Nippon first appeared on the market in the early 1980's. The early reproductions were poorly decorated and had fake back stamps which could easily be differentiated from the authentic back stamps by knowledgeable collectors. However, many novice Nippon collectors were fooled by these pieces and unknowingly added these "fakes" to their collections.
Over time the companies making these fake pieces have perfected the M-in-wreath back stamp. It is impossible to tell the authentic back stamp from this new fake! Additionally, other authentic back stamps such as the Maple Leaf and Rising Sun were also being used on fake pieces. While these fake back stamps were slightly different from the authentic back stamps and definitely not as perfect as the M-in-wreath fake back stamp, they could fool collectors. Recently, thanks to the efforts of the Noritake Company, U.S. Customs has ruled that the fake M-in-wreath mark is counterfeit and not allowed for importation into the United States. Because of this ruling, wholesalers, for the time being, have stopped marking their fake Nippon with the Noritake Company back stamps (including the Maple Leaf, Rising Sun, and RC marks). Fake Nippon is now being sold 'unsigned'; that is, with no back stamp. The items come into the United States with a paper label identifying the country it was made in. Of course, the paper label is easily removed leaving the item 'unsigned.'
In addition to changes in the back stamps, the actual mold style and decoration of the fake Nippon has been improving. In fact some of the newer fakes are being copied from original patterns used during the Nippon era, making them reproductions not fakes. The quality of these reproductions, while much improved over past fakes, is still not quite right and the feel of the porcelain is wrong. However, the overall quality of these reproductions is getting better all of the time and it's imperative for collectors to be aware of this. The photos below show both an authentic Nippon cracker jar and the reproduction, unsigned counterpart.
Many of the fake Nippon items found on the market today are 'fantasy' items; that is an item of this type was never actually made in Nippon porcelain. Items such as oyster plates, wine coolers, large jardinieres, oil lamps, and most wall pockets are 'fantasy' pieces. The black boy on alligator and the black mammy toothpick also fall into this category.
Actual photos of many Nippon fakes, reproductions, and fantasy items are shown in the next several pages. Take time to recognize both the shape of the item and the decoration. Many times a particular decoration is used on a number of different pieces. For example, the decoration on the pieces pictured below (left) also shows up on a wall pocket, a bowl, candlesticks and various dresser items.
Reproductions are a topic in every issue of the INCC News and INCC Journal. We strive to keep our members updated on the latest reproductions to 'hit' the market with photographs and descriptions. Membership in the INCC may save you a costly mistake, so why not go to the MEMBERSHIP page and send your application in today. On the following pages are photos of many of the current reproductions. Please be advised that our collection, while extensive, is not inclusive and new reproductions are continually entering the market.
Welcome all our members and friends! We know many of you know us from our Facebook page. We are glad that you have joined us here and we hope that you will consider joining the International Nippon Collectors Club - membership is a great value and gives you to access to old Journals and Notebooksas well as information about upcoming events..
MEMBERS!!!We have new things for you - JUST uploaded is the newest journal ~ so sign into the Member Toolsand read the 2021 Spring INCC E-Journal. While signed in, go take a look at the other Journals archived there. Then head over to the Nippon Notebook- spend some time seeing what you might learn from these wonderful old publications. Issues published between 1979 through 1982 are available for reading.
MEMBERS!!! We have NEW members - you can learn who they are when you read the newest 2021 Spring INCC E-Journalin Member Tools(requires sign in). Welcome ALL you new members - you are now among friends!
There are several makers of these enamel on silver/gold replicas. Any way you can ask the owner to flip one of them over. Sets such as the Metropolitan Collection will have the logo (MC) marked on the back.Login to Likethis post
Are these very collectible? If so, then why aren't the golden replica stamps on cover desirable for those who collect metallic replicas? Does it have something to do with the fact that these retain the original stamp colors?Login to Likethis postwww.ebid.net/us/stores/Adam-%CF%80-Stamps
Adam31415926 asked, Quote:"Are these very collectible?" My mother used to joke about her collection of belly button lint, but she wasn't far off about what people collect and what they think is collectible. I think that most stamp collectors prefer to collect stamps that were actually intended for postal use. Some go further, and consider mint stamps to be labels, and only used stamps to be collectible. Some think of used stamp as "damaged" and prefer stamps that look they were just purchased at the post office. Some people collect obviously damaged stamps because they are so inexpensive. I often throw obviously damaged stamps into the paper recycling bin. And in a democracy, this is the way things should be. So, collect what you like. And these metal reproductions are certainly attractive. Hard to mount in an stamp album, though! BobLogin to Likethis postwww.ephemeraltreasures.net
Another thought about "collectibility": Market value, to my mind, has nothing to do with whether a particular stamp or any postal item is "collectible". There are lots of very expensive stamps that I have zero interest in having. And there are some, including many common, dirt-cheap stamps that are so collectible that, well, they're in my collection! BobLogin to Likethis postwww.ephemeraltreasures.net
Adam, there was a strong market for golden replicas. I don't know if it still exists, or not. There is very little secondary market for them, or at least I haven't seen it in any of clubs or bourses i've attended. Why? who knows? I think that mass=-produced material whose sole value lies in its collectibility is subject to greater loss once it leaves the showroom. That is, if it was made solely to be collected, its value lies solely there. I don't think I'm doing a good job explaining myself. David 1 Memberlikes this post.Login to Like."Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
Quote:"My mother used to joke about her collection of belly button lint, but she wasn't far off about what people collect and what they think is collectible." Just for comparison... Login to Likethis post
nice to see, Kim, especially noting the improved coloration in recent fluff. I hope that wagon hasn't already sailed, cuz I want in. When you extract fluff, do you use tweezers or tongs or another specialized device. It seems mounting is somewhat, ummm, loose. Organization looks easy, although some might prefer by color or texture. Do you know whether eithe of those affect cost signficantly. And is Amos involved in catalogue market for this, too. Does one go to Hobby Lobby for Belly Buttons? and the erudite name: is it navelatelist? or fluffologist. does Mint Lint refer to flavor, color, or condition? God, I hope their bourses don't overlap with the APS show. I'm hooked (a term which linters borrowed from the knitting crowd, who have very similar fabrics, it seems). David 1 Memberlikes this post.Login to Like."Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
That's actually not my lint collection. Notice how well organized and labeled it is. Good thing it's labeled -- somebody might mistake it for a jar of raisins. Like stamps, we present our collections different. I prefer mine in a ball. I'll take a picture of it on top of a Scott catalog sometime this weekend and post it.Login to Likethis post
Gold replica stamps were sold as part of a subscription program (per release or monthly) and members could receive them in the mail, sometimes up to three at a time. These stamps were not issued by the post office itself, rather by private companies seeking to profit from the stamp collecting industry. Even the rate at which they were sold in the 1980s, when they first came out, was inflated. Sadly though, there is little collector value in replica stamps. The stamps themselves are not even really stamps by definition. When referring to them, it is recommended to stick to the term gold replicas as the term stamps for these items has been turned down by various (international) court decisions more than once (Scottish STAFFA affair, etc).
The value of gold replica stamps is entirely speculative. Such stamps can be purchases on eBay for between $1 and $5 depending on the desirability to those collecting these stamps. There is not even enough gold to measure as the gold percentage is microscopic. Therefore, gold replica stamps do not have much worth in their melt value.
What exactly does a bunch of molecules weigh? The gold itself is merely evaporated and steamed onto the carrier (paper, tin foil, whatever). In theory (means: ignoring costs, time and common sense), you could melt down a ton of replicas without even receiving one gram of gold. For comparison: Much thicker (and unlike the replicas, ready to go or ready to market ) gold leaf with an average thickness of one 7000th of a millimeter and a size of 200 square centimeters (25 88 centimeter leafs) can be purchased for roughly 19 US$ (price for 23k grade). Just above three units of that (640 square centimeters) represent one gram of 23k gold leaf, IIRC. Ergo: Real gold leaf is easier to get and much cheaper, the legend of gold replicas being an investment in gold is pure marketing.
If you would like to sell your collection of gold replica stamps, the best place to go is eBay. Check the most recent completed sales (not expired or ongoing auctions) and you will see what they have recently sold for.
Yes, the gold can be very easily recovered, although there is not much of it. One member of AC did this using the following steps. It took about 30 of them to create a proofing solution. A few cents worth of gold in each stamp depending on the size.